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 Post subject: Helsinki Embassy (2007) Wrong Advice!
UNREAD_POSTPosted: February 19th, 2013, 11:24 pm 
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Joined: February 17th, 2013, 8:51 pm
Posts: 80
I doubt many members will ever find themselves going through this embassy at world's end, but thought I would put out an experience warning concerning what happened to me years ago. Things can obviously have changed since then and perhaps someone else has dealt with them at a later date.

When I informed the Italian Embassy in Helsinki in 2007 of my status as Italian citizen since birth (which LA had explained to me earlier), I asked them how to go about submitting documents and applying for my passport there. We went through the lineage as usually the
case and then I received an e-mail stating that my mother should have explicitly applied for
Italian citizenship when she married in 1952 and that the divorce would have canceled her
citizenship.

Knowing bureaucracy as well as I do, I checked in with LA (Andrea was there at the time)
and told about what I had been informed and she was incredulous! She told me get an
explicit statement from the guy in Helsinki including what "law" he was basing this statement
on. I asked for it 4 times.

Needless to say, I never heard back from him! :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Helsinki Embassy (2007) Wrong Advice!
UNREAD_POSTPosted: February 19th, 2013, 11:34 pm 
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Joined: June 13th, 2009, 10:40 pm
Posts: 13189
Location: Tokyo, Japan
I've heard much more misinformed statements from other consulates, including even ones in the US. Look at what poor MLabrosc02 went through just recently at NY! When I first attempted to apply in Tokyo in 2005, the person there told me that jure sanguinis claims could only go back 2 generations. :o

We have someone on this board, DaniVerde, applying in Helsinki now.


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 Post subject: Re: Helsinki Embassy (2007) Wrong Advice!
UNREAD_POSTPosted: February 19th, 2013, 11:38 pm 
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Joined: February 17th, 2013, 8:51 pm
Posts: 80
Great to know! In all fairness, judging from what Andrea in LA told me, it may well be that those (save for the NY Case) who deal infrequently with this are less well informed. I would imagine Helsinki and Tokyo fit that description. She told me they deal with thousands of such cases each year. Helsinki likely deals with one or two every five years!


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 Post subject: Re: Helsinki Embassy (2007) Wrong Advice!
UNREAD_POSTPosted: February 19th, 2013, 11:40 pm 
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Joined: June 13th, 2009, 10:40 pm
Posts: 13189
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Quote:
my mother should have explicitly applied for Italian citizenship when she married in 1952 and that the divorce would have canceled her citizenship.

This is a somewhat contradictory statement. If she was required to have explicitly applied for it, then that would imply that she never became Italian in the first place, and thus had no citizenship to lose by the divorce.

I know that neither part of their response is correct; I'm just pointing out that it's not even internally consistent.


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 Post subject: Re: Helsinki Embassy (2007) Wrong Advice!
UNREAD_POSTPosted: February 19th, 2013, 11:42 pm 
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Joined: February 17th, 2013, 8:51 pm
Posts: 80
"I know that neither part of their response is correct; I'm just pointing out that it's not even internally consistent."

Actually (based upon what I was asked when the lawyer did up my citizenship status statement), there IS a particular case where the divorce (at least at that time) might have severed the citizenship. If I recall correctly, my attorney asked me if my mother has "left Italy" (they weren't even living in Italy) after the divorce. If she would have "left Italy after the divorce and resumed residing in her homeland", that would probably be what the guy at the Helsinki embassy was thinking of.


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 Post subject: Re: Helsinki Embassy (2007) Wrong Advice!
UNREAD_POSTPosted: February 19th, 2013, 11:44 pm 
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Joined: June 13th, 2009, 10:40 pm
Posts: 13189
Location: Tokyo, Japan
LA has its own weak spots. There is a certain kind of case where the applicant in fact is not a citizen but the LA consulate keeps recognizing such person anyway. I've seen 3 such cases already there. OTOH, LA is also really weird with names that don't conform to Italian naming regulations.


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 Post subject: Re: Helsinki Embassy (2007) Wrong Advice!
UNREAD_POSTPosted: February 19th, 2013, 11:45 pm 
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Joined: June 13th, 2009, 10:40 pm
Posts: 13189
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Gershon wrote:
"I know that neither part of their response is correct; I'm just pointing out that it's not even internally consistent."

Actually (based upon what I was asked when the lawyer did up my citizenship status statement), there IS a particular case where the divorce (at least at that time) might have severed the citizenship. If I recall correctly, my attorney asked me if my mother has "left Italy" (they weren't even living in Italy) after the divorce. If she would have "left Italy after the divorce and resumed residing in her homeland", that would probably be what the guy at the Helsinki embassy was thinking of.

What you're referring to is Article 10 of Law 555 of 1912. I believe that part is considered to have been repealed in 1948 by the new constitution.

Of course, the law didn't actually mention divorce for Italian citizens, because it was illegal in Italy at the time. There's a paragraph on widows and a paragraph on Italian women married to foreign men who divorce.


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 Post subject: Re: Helsinki Embassy (2007) Wrong Advice!
UNREAD_POSTPosted: February 19th, 2013, 11:51 pm 
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Joined: February 17th, 2013, 8:51 pm
Posts: 80
Probably. There are two separate "clausulas" in my citizenship legal statement. One establishes that she did not lose the citizenship (my mother) and the following that the new marriage did not cease the citizenship (because she didn't automatically get my father's citizenship. The acquisition of Italian citizenship is said to have taken place pursuant to 10 (2) Law 555/1912.


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 Post subject: Re: Helsinki Embassy (2007) Wrong Advice!
UNREAD_POSTPosted: February 19th, 2013, 11:54 pm 
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Joined: June 13th, 2009, 10:40 pm
Posts: 13189
Location: Tokyo, Japan
The clauses in the law that worked to a married woman's benefit were not reversed until 1983, whereas the ones that worked against her were by the 1948 Constitution.


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 Post subject: Re: Helsinki Embassy (2007) Wrong Advice!
UNREAD_POSTPosted: February 19th, 2013, 11:59 pm 
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Joined: February 17th, 2013, 8:51 pm
Posts: 80
That's exactly what I meant when I said I felt like I had won the lottery! The timing is incredible in our case! Talk about a Higher Power!


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